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Rebekah's avatar

Very interesting. I like your "New Science" drawing of the feedback loop between cognitive architecture and culture. I'm a retired French and Spanish teacher, and I've always believed in the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, at least to some extent. Culture is very language-driven, and language gives us tools for clarity of conscious thought, and can shape the form our thoughts take. And if we don't have a word for it, we don't have a concept of it.

I think it's true what Fedorenko says, though, that you can think without language. But I think we use language for conscious thought, besides communication, and that it gives us an additional way of thinking. But if you can't think to begin with, then language won't make you able to think, so LLMs can't think, as you posit. A lot of language is simply habit. LLMs also can't feel, because they don't have an endocrine system.

Both chimpanzees and bonobos (though rarely, I think just one of each) have been taught to use a form of language to communicate with humans, in a concrete but creative way. They themselves with each other use both gestures and grunts/calls to communicate things like emotions or danger or wanting someone to do something. Even dogs understand a lot of words!

I think the way language developed was that at first it was mainly gestures accompanied by expressive sounds. Then you also had sounds people made that imitated nature, which eventually became the name of the thing or action associated with the sound (onomatopoeia.) Real language, I think, began when people first realized that any sound(s) can be the name of a thing, as long as people agree to use it for that. And writing started as pictures being drawn to represent something, and marks made for counting.

What Donald says about mimetic skills makes me think of "mirror neurons." We naturally (if we're at all empathetic, but babies/toddlers too) tend to mimic the body stance of the person we're talking to.

As a language scientist, I don't believe in Chomsky's universal grammar or in evolutionary psychology or Pinker's computational theory of mind. (Cisek sounds a little too computational for me too, and all this about controlling behavior, I think there's a lot lacking in us as far as conscious control.) I'm more in agreement linguistically with S. I. Hayakawa and George Lakoff; I think semantics is much more important than syntactics.

It's All Just A Ride's avatar

Thanks for this. Very interesting. Where does Embodied/Enactive cognition and the 4E approach fit? Seems pretty complimentary to what people like Francisco Verala/Stephen Gallagher, etc have been talking about.

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